2008…10 years on part 2

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Sebagai sambungan kepada aku punye previous post, aku dah prepare dah a draft of ape yg aku nak cadangkan utk dilakukan sempena tahun 2008 yg akan datang ni. draft ni aku dah uploadkan dan boleh di downloadkan from this post di sini: idea ku. just 2 things to mention, pertama, this is just my idea. it doesnt mean this is exactly the thing we’re going to do. kalau ade org setuju, then let me know how we can do it. kalau ade org x setuju, also let me know kenape kite can’t do it. Kalau ade cadangan lain, then also bgtau. tp yg penting, kene lah ade response. klu ade any questions, jgn la segan silu nak bertanye. yg keduanya, eloklah kalau bende ni x digembar gemburkan secara all out kepada segenap lapisan masyarakat lagi. ok?cantek… selamat.

Β En. Zamir

46 Responses to “2008…10 years on part 2”

  1. pyanwuzier (meniru shawuzier) Says:

    Excellent kick-start Zamir. Here are some of my initial thoughts.

    1. How much does it really cost?

    I myself have been an ANSYS user before (both @ the U and in industry) and boy, IIRC the liscense costs ~USD5k/year. So we all collect money and let the software run in koleq?

    2. To what extend are we going to expose the kids to the software?

    You definitely need more than form5 physics as a background before you understand simulation works, right? So are we going to plan for like a series of introductory lectures on mechanics and thermal engineering also? Or do we want to show the capability of CAE via simulating experiments in the KBSM physics text book?

    I think this is a great idea but it requires a whole lot more effort than just installing the software @ infolab (or whatever it is called these days) to make the program meaningful.

    I believe we have enough engineers around to make this happen. What about ppl from other professions? Any comments?

  2. nikanas Says:

    a great plan for aspiring engineers in koleq, and would be a vey valuable advantage for their future engineering career, but as pyan said, it takes more than form 5 physics.

    but i do believe that if the koleq boys really know their Physics, it should be no problem for them to use the program. hell, kids these days are whizkids when it comes to IT.

  3. zongtwi Says:

    Thanks for the quick response.
    kite bukannye nak suruh diorg paham how simulation works. the intention is to let them be exposed to it and use it. from there it will hopefully stimulate their minds in becoming more creative and innovative. Budak2 yg masuk koleq sume supposedly pandai2 belaka, so shouldn’t be a problem. Like i said jugak, bende ni bukannye unik. this method of teaching has been done in another school (pls refer to the document), and it is successful. aku sendiri dah tgk the things yg bebudak sekolah tu buat. very fascinating.
    kite kan ramai yg bekerja di industri skrg ni…probably buleh create simple projects etc so that bebudak tu buleh gune and design new things. and u just gave a good idea too…simulate the experiments from the text books. a very good idea. papepun, if there’s enough people yg nak backing bende ni, kite come up with ideas etc on what is the best was to expose students to this software
    yg pasal harga pulak, it’s not that expensive. ANSYS has educational products yg very basic and simple but still using the powerful simulation solver as in other commercial products. aku xtau the pricing yet, next week baru aku akan di brief kan oleh company aku pasal harga2 die. tapi we’re looking at less that 15k a year. that’s why we need fundings and the backing from MCOBA, and MOE.

  4. amin r Says:

    good idea, zamir. although i’m not too familiar with ANSYS (not too widely used in my field), i think early exposure could give the present boys an edge against our fierce competitors (mrsm, other sbp’s and even elite schools from neighboring countries).

    fundraising strategy is critical to the project’s success. we have to make to sure it has all the quality to attract alumni, investors, ministry, non-profit based org, etc.

    sounds like we need tons of manpower to get the engine running. if everyone agrees this is something we want to pursue, we need to plan this in detail.

    excellent job on the proposal draft, zamir. promptly done. i’m in.

  5. semaun Says:

    I bet the geeks among the current boys are still having spats on why they can’t use the PC’s longer than they’re supposed to. If I were one of them, I for one would dig physics and join your program just for the sake having access to a PC. Doing simulations is cool.

    I wonder if there is any open source/free alternative to the ANSYS package? Search for caelinux, salome etc… Please explore the possibilities.

  6. semaun Says:

    One more thing, I have little confidence in the management capabilities of the school’s caretakers, and the MoE even, in the context of handling these technology. I’m such a pessimist when it comes to the government. I could be wrong.

  7. pyan Says:

    jap, come to think of it, to be fair, aku rasa zamir kau kene share dulu la dgn kami apa yg software company ko tu offer la (the exact educational version of Ansys). rm15k/yr is quite a lot of money, and we definitely need a solid strategy should we decide to proceed further.

    among other important things yg kene pikirkan include module content and duration. kita kena buat macam guideline or syllabus la juga. preferably something that can show how the things they learn today is actually fundamental to real world challenges that engineers deal with. start with the concepts and simple maths and theories, then your software solution can kick in.

    nak senang, zamir, why not kau share jugak case studies of similar efforts like you mention? what did they do and how did they do it? we can probably learn from them and fine tune to fit our plan for koleq.

  8. zongtwi Says:

    regarding the case study, actually duringmy recnt trip to singapore, there was this ansys user conference, where everyone that uses ansys comes and share their experiences with everyone. this was when a representative for Teck Whye secondary school gave a presentation on the achievements on using ansys. unfortunately i don’t have a copy of the presentation. i have emailed thst rep and asked for a copy. however,i have still yet to receive a reply from him.
    Azamshul, iknow there are cheaper even free and open sourced CAE softwres available. however, the main reason i’m proposing the best CAE software available to be used is also to increase students’ confidence. I’ll give u an example, if u had the opportunity to drive a ferrari, and u took it for a spin for a few laps. you might not be the best driver nor would u be the best automotive engineer who understands everything that occurs under the bonnet. but i’m sure you’ll feel like a million dollars with sky high confidence, right? thing is, getting the best software available is definitely affordable, so why do we choose the lesser option? but like I said, so far i havent been briefed on the pricing etc. I’ll let everyone know as soon as possible.
    regarding how we are going to implement this t the kids, that is where i need everyone’s help. i need ideas. pyan, i agree with u, we might need to create a new syllabulsetc. we need to discuss this further.
    pasal management yg hampeh pulak…if this is a problem, that we have to find ways of dealing with it la. for every new thing to be introduced, ofcos la bnyk problem2 kecik mcm ni. but let’s not make that a barrier from doing something that we want to do.
    at the moment, i just want a list of people yg hands down setuju, people yg need more convincing and people yg mmg think this is a bad idea. baru la kite bule move another step forward. so, camne? what say u?

  9. d10 Says:

    i believe that koleq core purpose is to create leaders. so instead of setting up some kind of engineering lab, why dont we create programs that can help the student to be leaders in their chosen field? maybe grooming class, how to speak better, project management that kind of stuff. zaha surely can give some talk on how to buy the correct kasut tajam.

  10. zahack Says:

    apa kejadahnye kasut tajam masuk dalam ini gambar? btw, abang yew-u can also gives some points on how to go to bangkok and make a tailormade suits while at the same time screwing someone from wisma negeri…ahah!

  11. zahack Says:

    apa kejadahnye kasut tajam masuk dalam ini gambar? btw, abang yew-u can also gives some points on how to go to bangkok and make a tailormade suit while at the same time screwing someone from wisma negeri…ahah!

  12. hadi Says:

    adalah dimaklumkan bahawa blog ini berfungsi sebagai forum penyampaian maklumat/perkongsian maklumat kepada ahli 9498 dan bukannya satu wadah tempat melepaskan emosi dan mengaibkan individu/kumpulan tertentu. sekian terima kasih.

  13. zongtwi Says:

    Thanks for the input UU. I do agree with your point, but don’t u think kalau kite set up this lab, and by all the projects etc that they’ll be doing, kite buleh memupuk the leadership skills, pr, public speaking etc? whether we like it or not, the subjects taken in koleq is MAINLY science stream. although i’m all for diversifying thesubjects available to students, and giving the students the option to choose themselves what to learn, trying to change the syllabus is more difficult than trying to have additional activities. tak gitu? so by introducing this thing, at the same time lets design the learning methodology and everything so that it enhances all the skills that u mentioned.

    example, if we create virtual turnkey projects, where a group of students have to design, manage, market and sell products virtually, they can choose what actually they want to major in, similar to a virtual company. sorang jd engineer, sorg jadik accountant, sorg jadik marketer, etc. this can provide all the necessary environment for these skills to flourish within these kids.

    so probably we can introduce CAE to form 3, how to use it atc. mase form 4 do more challenging tasks. and by form 5 they can start to do those turnkey projects. sort of like a progression of innovative skills la…what do u think?

  14. d10 Says:

    i still do not agree. one of the major problem is see right now is the lack of leaders for our generation. i blame this on the MOE decision to force all our bright students to take science stream. i do not want to support that. and i personally think its up to us to balance that out. biarla budak MRSM semua jadi engineer and execs in GLCs. let them enjoy their steady income and well plan retirement scheme. let us koleq boys have the control of this country.

  15. d10 Says:

    btw zaha kau mmg takleh simpan rahsia kerajaan la!

  16. AK Says:

    Both UU n Zamir have good points. As a win-win thing..I think we can do both. I believe a good idea to start is organising a 1 day or 2 day event, focusing on career talk, motivational talk, some leadership courses, etc.. This way we can present the boys the multiple careers they can take. Let the boys be aware of the choices and what it takes to be successful, instead of throwing something to them and them tell them this is what you must do. Let the boys choose. Then we can assess their feedback.
    Based on this feedback, we can see how many boys are intereseted in CAE. If the numbers are justified, we can go to MCOBA with a strong case. If there are only 10 ppl interested, I don’t think MCOBA would like to spend good money for this ppl. Lets make a realistic target, 20-40% of the Form 4s and Form 5s perhaps…
    If they are not interested in CAE, then we can do something else that they are interested in. Maybe leadership camps and some other things.
    As UU said, Koleque boys should be different than others. We should encourage the boys to think crtically and creatively. Let them choose.

  17. amin r Says:

    From what I’ve seen, koleq boys are pretty sharp when it comes to business and/or leadership skills. I don’t know what it is, but budak koleq seem to have a unique drive for success. We tend to support and compete against each other at the same time. Might be peer pressure, I don’t know.

    Not to deviate too much from my original point, but like Ajak said, seems like we need to put together a focus group. Basically do a trial program on a random group of students, study their responses and get them to evaluate the programs (written / verbal).

  18. amin r Says:

    Here’s why I support Zamir’s proposal:

    Say you’re a business man, who wants to improvise and sell a new product, example: wheelchair. You don’t build it yourself. You present your idea to your engineers and they’ll figure it out. They go through hundreds of iterations and come up with a design that’s cost efficient, marketable, practical, require minimal maintenance, safe, etc. That’s the one you wanna mass produce. Basic Research and Development (R&D).

    You may have several design teams and each team will come up with their own solution. So you’ll have multiple prototypes. The best one…wins.

    I think what Zamir is saying is, let them go through this excercise, one baby step at a time. We’ll provide them the tools they need along the way (ex. ANSYS). Let me know if I’m way off here, Zamir.

    Lets see if we’ve covered all targeted set of skills:
    Design, teamwork, creativity, writing, public speaking, market research, business instinct, time management, probably anger management too. The list is bottomless..

    I may have overseen other aspects here, but that’s essentially what I saw when I read Zamir’s proposal. Hey, it’s an idea, lets continue the brainstorm..

  19. nad Says:

    tak sempat baca semua tapi zamir sila pastikan tugasan anda selesai dulu. jgn byk sgt case study πŸ™‚

  20. zongtwi Says:

    Nad, ape la ko merepek ni…

    anyways, Amin, you’ve definitely got the jist of what I’m proposing. I think some of you have misunderstood the intentions of my proposal. We are not trying to train future engineers here…I mean, they might end up being engineers, but it doesn’t have to be that way. The main reason introducing this thing is to stimulate their minds and expose them to the most advanced technology available. Bukannye nak melatih engineer, that can be done at university level. what I’m trying to do is instil the innovative and creative culture, so in the end, koleq will produce highly innovative and confident people to go and do WHATEVER they choose to do.

    basically introducing CAE to them is by no means trying to shove engineering up their butts (quite inoppropriately used i think, especially for koleq) but a means to open up their minds to think creatively and act innovatively.

    I do wish for all of us who are interested in doing something remarkable for koleq can meet up, and discuss face to face, instead of just tulis panjang lebar kat sini…how?

  21. mikai Says:

    Fantastic idea especially those working as engineer/IT.Since I’m an engineer too and plus working with an RnD company.But first, I think zamir needs to setup a strong small team and prepare a preliminary plan/proposal. This plan will cover everything from market research, budget, operating system, technical etc.I believe we have a pool of professionals in our batch!.Before this aku pernah suggest kita create something like categories by professions for our batch and put it in the blog. So easily kalo kita ada nak seek help or advice, we know where can find one.or even better kalo kita nak plan to setup a company, senang nak cari orang.betul x?!

    Then we’ll need to present it to the whole batch.Sebab I don’t think everyone know what the heck is ‘CAE’.

    I strongly agree with Zamir’s idea because something needs to be change in our education system.

    But the toughest challenge is how to make the whole batch be part of it and be proud of it. That’s when u need someone with the drive and motivational skills like…

  22. zahack Says:

    aku cakap melayu takpe kan?aku rasa aku bukanlah seseorang yang terbaik untuk berkata-kata berkenaan dengan hal ni tapi aku sokong dan puji zamir 100% di atas kesudian dan kesungguhan beliau memulakan langkah kecil batch kita ni. pandangan aku 50-50, nak install cae tu bagus tapi kalau hardware still tahap mediocre kita takleh expect the software to run 100% to its potential, right? apa yang aku baca (sori, kalau aku tersilap baca ke apa) takde mention about hardware. nak bundled up hardware+software? costly gak tuh untuk kita2 yang baru je 2-3 independent (aku rasa kalau max pun 5) and not everyone can contribute to that.

    Uu, ko ada point bernas tapi pada aku kalau amik sc stream tak semestinya kena jadik engineer, dokter etc. to me, having a degree is only a gateway for you to venture into the working world. yes, budak engine akan cenderung jadik engineer tapi no harm if you want to try out something different. the question is, are you daring and bold enough to take up new challenge? it is entirely up to you, dare to fail bak kata orang. Uu, cakap banyak pun tak guna..meh join la cepat!

  23. anas Says:

    zaha…

    “to me, having a degree is only a gateway for you to venture into the working world. yes, budak engine akan cenderung jadik engineer tapi no harm if you want to try out something different…”

    betul ke zaha? dulu ko ambik aero engineering bukan sebab ko nak jadi engineer ke? i know i took mechanical engineering because i want to be an engineer. even if having a degree is just a gateway to the working world, most of the time your employers will give you a task suitable with your qualifications, except the PTDs lah.

    students take their degrees based on their ambition.

  24. zongtwi Says:

    Memang betul xde sebut pasal hardware etc…sume tu boleh di bgtau later on. pasal budget plak, bukannye nak suruh kite sendiri yg fully fund this project, tp kene carik sponsors la.

    Aku maybe boleh come up with a proper plan detailing everything that we need to know and have. tp it might take sometime la jugak (for obvious reasons). in the mean time, kalau korg pegi ke:
    http://www.cadit.com.sg/aac6/photogallery4.aspx

    It talks about the ANSYS user conference that I attended in Singapore. If you read the last phrase from the 5th paragraph, it talks about Teck Whye using ANSYS in their curriculum. And if you look at the last picture, you can see me in the middle there trying to get into the pic sbb quite pendek heh hampeh

  25. mikai Says:

    x bole ker set up a demo so we all can see for ourselves??

  26. zongtwi Says:

    demo about CAE? boleh sangat… like i said previously kalau kite sume boleh meet up face to face to discuss lagi senang. so how?

    alternatively, aku ade a few CAE presentations yg ANSYS buat. Malangnye, each prsnttn saiz nye is minimum 200mb…so how?

    any ideas?

  27. zongtwi Says:

    Anas, true, there are students who take degrees based on their ambitions. But what if their ambitions change along the way? I started out wanting to do engineering, but it was because everyone (older generation) said I had to become either an engineer, or doctor or lawyer, or lecturer or accountant etc. Now, after taking engineering and working for a couple of years, I have to say I don’t want to become an engineer no more. My vission when I was young about engineering was so far from the truth right now. I just wished someone came along when I was younger and showed all the different possibilities out there. To me, my degree was literally what Zaha said, a gateway for me to explore the working world. If you ask me what my ambitions are right now, it’s totally different.

    Tu belum yg amik degree sebab parents paksa buat something. Ataupun yg amik degree sebab ikut kawan je. Ataupun yg amik degree sebab tu je yg dia layak amik based on their matrik/Alevel/foundation results.

    It’s good that you knew what you wanted to become awal2 lagi and took the relevant degree and now ko happy with what you are doing. Wish I was the same.

  28. amin r Says:

    Zamir, I’d really like to sit down with you to break down the details of the plan. Unfortunately, the trip alone will cost me 2 days and a couple grand. Would really love to be involved. If you see any task that suits my position, drop me an email: aminramli@gmail.com. Anything at all, dude.

    Keep me in the loop.

    p.s: Market Watch – Man, wish I had bought Google at $100.

  29. d10 Says:

    shaits aku busy. aku dah lost. apa kau kau cakap ni zaha? thanks to amin aku rasa aku dah paham sikit taktik zamir.

  30. semaun Says:

    >> zamir
    have us to meet up somewhere and bring your lappie or borrow someone’s to show us the presentation. if there’s somebody interested to copy the whole presentation, then bring your usb drives yourself and copy from zamir. as former infolab prez (current bragging value is zero) , i will always support the use of IT in koleq. and i need something to do in my free time too, other than watching animes, hehehe.

    >> amin
    use skype and call someone at our meet-ups lah, a lot cheaper one. no visual, but i think you can participate in the discussion.

    >> all engineering students
    what made you choose engineering, and how close your current workscope is to your ideal when you chose this field?

  31. amin r Says:

    excellent idea ma’on. kalu ada high speed internet (which is like oxygen these days), boleh buat teleconference.

  32. nikanas Says:

    zamir, although my title is ‘engineer’, my work scope does not feature anything i learnt in Uni, except some basic concepts. not really hardcore engineering works i think, just supervising the maintenance of some rm30 million worth of equipments, some workpaper, and vendors and all. but i’m happy with what i’m doing right now. heh.

    ya, some people do change their ambition along the way, because when we were in secondary school, only the ‘cool’ side of professional professions like engineers, lawyers, doctors and stuff are revealed. but hey, no job is an easy job.

  33. nikanas Says:

    about parents making choices for their children when it comes to choosing a degree or career…is that good or bad? i for one will let my children do what their want with their life, provided it’s not illegal lah.

  34. pyan Says:

    abih anas kalau one day anak ko cakap ‘bapak, saya nak jadi full time penyair/penyajak’ ko nak cakap apa? heh heh.

  35. anas Says:

    asal boleh cari makan udah le, jangan nyusahkan aku sudah…haha

  36. azam jalil Says:

    I propose we have an unofficial meeting to be held in December 2006 to commemorate as 1 year mark before our 10th anniversary.It will be a turning point for all of us to initiate serious intention among our batch members.

    I’m proposing Sunday,17/12/2006 at One Utama for our first unofficial meeting.

  37. nad Says:

    πŸ™‚ 17/12 tu maoi tunang, takleh meeting beb. maoi engineer tm dia org penting. tapi apa kata 12/12 kita buat makan2 sempena harijadi kaposh kat uptown. sapa nak ikut. buat lambat sikit la dlm kul10 camtu sbb hari keja.

  38. nad Says:

    utk sapa yg tak pikap tu hari 1st korg masuk prepschool tahun 1993 dulu. dah 13 thn siol. aku tau ada org yg nangis haritu. taknak ckp la sapa. :))

  39. azam jalil Says:

    Aku mmg nak propose 12/12 tapi pikir hari keje aku propose weekend.Anyway aku agree on celebrate birthday kaposh.

    Ada sesiapa yang nak pegi ke?

  40. zongtwi Says:

    I will be in Singapore dari 10 smpi 16 Disember. So I can’t make it then…

    gile siot…dah 13 tahun…susah nak percaya.

  41. mikai Says:

    laa watak utama, en.zamir xde..

  42. d10 Says:

    zamir ni mmg tp la.

  43. zongtwi Says:

    Bihtu nak buat camne…dah kene pegi…

  44. azam jalil Says:

    Kalau mcm tu zamir ko kena bagitau bila availability ko.Baru kita orang boleh align masa kitorg dgn ko.Semua tgh semangat nak dgr explaination about your plan.

  45. zongtwi Says:

    Right, lets make it on 2 Jan 2007? ade time sket utk aku prepare ape2 yg patut

  46. AK Says:

    Not relating to Zamir’s discussion session..I’m proposing a joint celebration; Qaposh’s birthday + 9498’s birthday

    Venue : SS 15, Subang (Darussalam)
    Time: 10 pm onwards
    Date: 12/12/2006

    Yes, it’s on a working day. So lets’ all make it on the dot so that we can all go back early.πŸ™‚

    p/s: Mr. Moderator, move this up to a new topic pls…tqπŸ™‚

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